Monday 26 May 2014

Rolfs Lake Bank Holiday Open 26th May 2014


Rolfs Lake Bank Holiday Open Monday 26th May 2014


Nothing is ever simple with me and today was no different !!!!!!


Seeing as i was at home in Wales this weekend it meant a 5am start for me as i needed to go to work in Newbury and then to Reading to collect my fishing gear as it was split between both.

Well i finally arrived at Rolfs Lake just on 10am and with the draw due at 11am i was EARLY 

A nice Rolfs breakfast cooked by Pauline and washed down with a coffee was soon eaten and before i knew it the draw was ready.


As normal i held back for drawing and when i drew there were 3 pegs left and peg number 8 stuck to my grubby mit (that'll do for me).

Last time i drew peg 8 was on the last day of the Easter Festival when it earned me a Section win with 118lb so i was happy with the draw.

PEG 8
Picture above not from today as it never stopped raining.


For company today on Peg 7 was Steve Palmer so at least if we didn't catch we'd have a bit of banter as Steve is always worth a laugh or 2.


So on to the fishing for a change i set up 2 rigs one to fish at 2mtrs both left and right and 1 to fish in the right margin.

Bait for today was Pellet and Paste as normal with pellet as feed.

When the all i was called i was actually ready so a couple of hand fulls of pellet went in each swim then i walked off to the van as i'd left my flask there.

When i returned i put in to the right swim and instantly missed 2 bites on pellet so 3rd put in was with Paste and that made all the difference as soon a 13lber was on the board (Happy Days).


Things never really got started during the match with just the odd fish coming solely from my right swim during the day and i ended up with 7 Carp (5 on the board) and 1 Skimmer but lost 7 as well and even managed to snap an elastic on an angry carp (recovered after the match though).

My final weight was 83lb 4oz witch ended up good enough for the win thats how hard it fished (BUT I WAS HAPPY).



       RESULTS
  1. Malc Doyle -------- 83lb 4oz
  2. Pat Pritchard ------- 74lb 11oz
  3. Mick Chapple ----- 72lb 3oz
  4. Micheal Corsini --- 69lb 8oz
  5. Ady Williams ------ 58lb 3oz
19 Fished

Back out next weekend for 3 matches which are
Friday -- Night Open
Saturday -- Jinx Match 2
Sunday -- Neil Riddy Invitational

So hopefully it's a bit dryer then and i might get to take a picture or 2.








Saturday 10 May 2014

2014 JINX SERIES MATCH 1


2014 JINX SERIES MATCH 1
SATURDAY MAY 10th

Following on from last nights match i slept in the van ready for today BUT i had to leave at 7am to deliver the 2 pallets i'd dropped in Newbury last night and fully expected to be back at the lake before 12 
BUT NO

Again things conspired against me and a call to Nick W was made to sort the draw out.

I arrived back at the lake just as the all in was called and made my way round to Peg 7 much to the annoyance of Dave C sitting on peg 8 in peace till i arrived.

Dave had already had a couple of net fish before i started but my first put in on the standard Top Kit with Paste resulted in a pristine 12lber on the board HAPPY DAYS lol

Well for the rest of the match i managed the odd fish (all on Top Kit) to end up with 8 Carp for 110lb 13oz which was good enough for 3rd in my section and 3rd overall so once again i was happy with that.

OVERALL POSITIONS ON THE DAY

  1. Neil R --- 152lb 15oz
  2. Clive P -- 115lb 2oz
  3. Malc D -- 110lb 13oz
  4. Steve W - 103lb 6oz
  5. Ade W -- 101lb 13oz
  6. Micky C - 80lb 6oz
  7. Paul J ---- 76lb 11oz (GUEST)
  8. Dai T ---- 69lb 5oz
  9. Paul R --- 65lb 7oz
  10. Dave C -- 63lb
  11. Simon W - 60lb 14oz
  12. Keith S --- 56lb 1oz
  13. Nick W -- 49lb 14oz
  14. Wez H --- 40lb 13oz
  15. Marcus B - 38lb 14oz
  16. Gino ------ 28lb 10oz (GUEST)
  17. Tony R --- 28lb
  18. Nick W-P - 22lb 8oz (GUEST)
  19. Legs ------ 18lb 15oz (GUEST)
  20. Brenda S -- 16lb 10oz
  21. Kev L ----- 7lb 4oz




I'm now fully caught up with the Reports so hopefully i can stay that way 
WORK PERMITTING 


Next trip is Bank Holiday Monday 26th May



Friday 9 May 2014

2014 JINX NIGHT MATCH



2014 JINX NIGHT MATCH
FRIDAY MAY 9th 

Well today it's my night match and just to be sure i didn't miss it i'd sorted at work to do 6am to 2pm in the warehouse, and with the draw at 5.30 this would give me plenty of time. !!!!!

Well that plan fell apart as at 2pm i was driving past Rolfs up the M40 on my way to Rugby to deliver 2 pallets and then on to Birmingham to collect 2 pallets.

I made the call to Nick W to sort the match and finally arrived at Rolfs just on 8.30pm (as i also had to return to Newbury to drop the pallets and collect my gear).

My home for the evening was one of the pegs i fished last week being peg 28  so all i took out of my bag was 1 top kit and the same rig i've used for the past couple of matches.

I started fishing just after 9pm so only missed about 11/2 hours of the match and instantly was hooked into what turned out to be a 19lb 12oz Mirror which wa quickly followed by it's slightly smaller cousin being a 18lb 4oz Common.

I knew although i started very well that i was way behind everyone else as Micky C on 13 already had 11 Carp before i'd wetted a line and most others weren't far behind him either but that didn't bother me as i'd caught so was more than happy.

Well cutting a long story short i ended up with 18 Carp and a weight of 236lb 5oz and 3rd overall.
WELL HAPPY WITH THAT RESULT
My second 200lb+ of the year

TOP 7 ON THE NIGHT

  1. Micky C       323lb 11oz
  2. Paul Jay       238lb 2oz
  3. Malc D        236lb 5oz
  4. Dai T           205lb
  5. Simon W     170lb
  6. Nick W        142lb
  7. Nick W-P    101lb



Sunday 27 April 2014

2014 JINX SERIES 2 DAY WARM UP DAY 2


DAY 2
2014 JINX SERIES 2 DAY WARM UP
SUNDAY APRIL 27th
Today i moved just 2 pegs along the car park bank from yesterday to Peg 26


Now i wont bore you all with loads of waffle as i'm weeks behind with my reports due to constantly working so this and the next couple of reports will be shall we say rather short.

Hopefully things will settle down a bit work wise and normal waffle will resume shortly.

Cutting the story rather short i caught 11 Carp to a best of 16lb 4oz with 8 falling to Paste on the top kit and 3 rather small fish falling to the feeder 

My weight today was 142lb 5oz which gave me the section win and a perfect 2 points.

Young Micky also won his section as well today which also gave him 2 points but his total weight for the 2 days was 398lb 1oz to my 289lb so Micky took first spot and i was second over the 2 days.


TODAYS POSITIONS
POSNAMEPEGWEIGHT
1Michael Corsini5159lb 10oz
2Malc Doyle26142lb 5oz
3Paul Jay18134lb 11oz
4Neil Riddy4130lb 5oz
5Steve Wilson22104lb 4oz
6Ade Williams3295lb 4oz
7Keith Stent1893lb 4oz
8Wez Hillier785lb 2oz
9Dai Thomas1466lb 2oz
10Russel Hill3855lb 11oz
11Dave Collier1645lb 13oz
12Mark Barret3432lb 15oz
13Brenda Stent2834lb 5oz
14Simon Watkins834lb 3oz
15John Hunt919lb 5oz
16Paul Roberts24D.N.W

Final Overall Top 5 Position 

POSNAMEPOINTSWEIGHT
1Michael Corsini2398lb 1oz
2Malc Doyle2289lb
3Neil Riddy4242lb
4Paul Jay6199lb 6oz
5Clive P / Steve W6171lb 11oz











Saturday 26 April 2014

2014 JINX SERIES 2 DAY WARM UP DAY 1

DAY 1
2014 JINX SERIES 2 DAY WARM UP
SATURDAY APRIL 26th

This weekend see's the warm up weekender ready for the start of THE 2014 JINX SERIES which starts properly in a couple of weeks time in may.

This weekend we have a mix of JINXSTERS and Guests fishing with a total of 16 fishing each day.

So the lake was split into 2 Sections of 8 and it was to be a random draw each day ( thanks to Neil for sorting the draw out as although i was early i was some how running late lol)

Sections were as follows

A SECTION PEGS
34 - 38 - 4 - 5 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 32

B SECTION PEGS
13 - 14 - 16 - 18 - 22 - 24 - 26 - 28

I drew peg 28 in B section today on the car park bank and was happy with that as it's a short walk and i was knackered following a mad week at work and other stuff going on.

PEG 28



Well soon as i arrived at my peg i made a bold decision and that was i would just set up a top kit and plumb around both left and right sides to find areas which were the same depth so just 1 rig would be needed (getting real lazy now).

Well at the all in no surprises to say i wasn't ready and finally i was ready about half hour after the start and as luck would have it first put in to the left on Paste resulted in a small Mirror of about 9lb which was quickly followed by a weigher of 12lb 8oz.

About half hour past with just missed bites then i hooked into what turned out to be my biggest fish of the day being a Common that went 22lb exactly pictured below


That made Malc a happy Chappie as i do love 20lbers especially on the top kit and Paste lol

Cant really say much for the rest of the match as i had the odd fish through out the day with the left side producing most of them and ended up with 10 Carp and 3 Skimmers for a weight of 146lb 11oz which won me the Section.

Micky on peg 38 won A Section with a great weight of 238lb 7oz (well done young man).
This meant that we were joint leaders with 1 point although Micky had a big weight advantage on me going into day 2 but i didn't care as id had a great day myself.


The overall results on the day

POS NAME PEG WEIGHT
1 Michael Corsini 38 238lb 7oz
2 Malc Doyle 28 146lb 11oz
3 Neil Riddy 4 111lb 11oz
4 Dai Thomas 7 101lb 10oz
5 Paul Roberts 18 70lb 5oz
6 Clive Pritchard 14 67lb 7oz
7 Paul Jay 9 64lb 11oz
8 Dave Collier 16 62lb 5oz
9 Simon Watkins 32 62lb 1oz
10 Keith Stent 22 43lb 7oz
11 Mark Barret 8 42lb 9oz
12 Richard Doolan 26 29lb 1oz
13 Brenda Stent 5 21lb 5oz
14 Wez Hillier 24 21lb
15 Kev Loveland 13 7lb 14oz
16 Kev Hillier 34 D.N.W


Monday 21 April 2014

Rolfs Lake 3 Day Easter Festival

DAY 3 
Monday April 21st 2014


Going into the 3rd and final day the Leader Board looks like this


3 Points

Steve Waters --- 294lb 13oz
Mick Lane ------ 229lb 8oz

4 Points

Mark Newbold --- 219lb 1oz
Anthony Flint ----- 192lb 2oz

5 Points

John Draper ---- 153lb 8oz

6 Points

Malc Doyle ---- 289lb 7oz
Chris Telling --- 177lb 6oz



Today saw me and my section compatriot's move onto B section for the final day and this is where we all drew

Peg 9 Anthony F -- Peg 10 Dan D -- Peg 13 Ernie M -- Peg 28 Mick L -- Peg 29 Paul N -- Peg 31 Justin M -- Peg 32 Frank H and myself on Peg 8


Following my blow out on Peg 36 yesterday when any 2 of my lost fish could have won me the section and i ended up 5th in section by just 21lb i had settled in my mind if lucky a top 10 final position by the end of the Festival.

So draw time arrived and i was pleasantly surprised to find Peg 8 left in the bag for me as it is always worth a few fish although EVERYONE that fishes it fishes 16mtr to the far bank and to the bush on the left.

But i just dont do what others do and i've had a fair amount of success in the past by fishing at 6mtrs in front and top 2 to the right and these were the lines i elected to fish today.


Peg 8

I set up 2 rigs both with JW JINX floats tied to .24 Powerline ending in a Guru hook-length with a 10 hook.
Rig 1 was for fishing long (for me) at 6mtrs
Rig 2 was set to fish at top 2 distance to both left and right hand sides once i'd plumbed around to find the same depth on both sides.


At the all in i went out to 6mtrs and instantly missed a bite on pellet but second put in resulted in a net fish of about 6lb which i thought hey up could be on for another good day.

Well i was wrong

As in the next 30 mins the only other action on this line was a Skimmer about 2lb followed by a small Roach so that line got 2 big pots of feed and a switch to the top kit to the right with Paste followed.

A few missed knocks to my right which  never developed into real bites and then BANG i was in (much to Dai's annoyance on peg 7)  lol this fish went about 12lb at a guess.

Looking around this actually put me right up there section wise with about hour n half gone) as i'd only seen the rest of the section catch odd silvers although id seen the odd carp lost.

For the next couple of hours i took the odd Carp from the right side with just a roach to the left (which made me fill that side in as i don't do roach at this time of year).

During the first 3 hours i'd been feeding pellet across to stop Frank on 32 taking all the far bank fish but with just 2 hours to go i ran out of 6mms and 4mms wouldn't reach, and shortly afterwards frank start to take some lump from down his margin.

I guessed the 6 Carp and couple of Skimmers i already had went about 80lb but knew that Frank could easily put a lot more than that in the net in the time left with me no longer able to feed across.

When the all out was called i guessed my 10 Carp and 3 Skimmers went about 100lb and i knew the only angler in my section pushing me close was Frank and i had a feeling i could end up in the top 5 overall depending on how those above me had done in their sections.

Couple of my doubles today


By the time it was my turn to weigh in we all knew that Steve Waters had WON the festival as he'd won his section today and Mark Newbold was 2nd in the festival (well done both Steve & Mark top results).

With my section split on both sides of the lake i had to wait till the last Peg which was frank on 32 had weighed in before i really knew where i'd finished both today and overall.

Well much to my surprise i had won my section today with 118lb and that meant i actually came 3rd overall in the festival (to say i was well chuffed is an understatement) as i seriously never expected to be higher that top 10.


FINAL TOP 6 POINTS & POSITIONS 

1st STEVE WATERS ------ 371lb 10oz --- 4 Points
2nd MARK NEWBOLD --- 355lb 12oz --- 6 Points
3rd MALC DOYLE -------- 404lb 7oz ----- 7 Points
4th MICK LANE ---------- 294lb 10oz ----- 8 Points
5th JON WALKER -------- 270lb 1oz -------  9 Points
6th FRANK HARDY ------ 237lb 6oz ---------9 Points



To round up my thoughts over the weekend fishing The Easter Festival i can honestly say i really enjoyed myself EVERY DAY as i fished how i wanted to (99% on top 2) and caught the best weight of the weekend on day 1 with 244lb 1oz, had a cracking 20lb 9oz Common on day 1 along with many other cracking fish and 99% of my fish were caught on My Paste.

AND FINALLY 

BIG THANKS TO JOHN and PAULINE and EDDIE and PAUL FOR ALL THEIR HARD WORK BEFORE - DURING AND AFTER THE FESTIVAL 










Sunday 20 April 2014

Rolfs Lake 3 Day Easter Festival

DAY 2 
Sunday April 20th 2014


Following day 1 the Points Board looks like this

1 Point

Malc Doyle
Mark Newbold
Dave Whiteman

2 Points

Mick Lane
Chris Telling
Steve Waters

3 Points

Anthony Flint
Johnny Broadbent
Phil Powell

4 Points

Frank Hardy
Jon Walker
John Draper

5 Points

Dean Deakin
Liam Bough
Ian McCullough

6 Points

Ernie Maylon
John Bennet
Micheal Corsini

7 Points

Paul Newbury
Andy Quarmby
Andy Johnston

8 Points

Justin McCabe
Geoff Edwards
Dai Thomas


Today my section compatriot's and myself move into A Section 

Well this arriving early is starting to become bit of a habit now 2 days on the trot arriving before the draw and today as well as Liam i've also got Jue with me as Gem - Simon & Caitlin are popping down this afternoon and nobody knows but me hehe.

Following on from yesterdays very enjoyable day i wasn't really worried were i drew today but did have a glancing thought that i did not fancy Peg 36   

BIG MISTAKE


PEG 36 MY HOME FOR 5 HOURS TODAY

To be honest i was not surprised to draw it as i have never had 2 good days in a row when fishing back to back matches but i was also a little disappointed as anyone who knows Rolfs will know it is the least liked or wanted peg on the venue as it is seldom used and never gets the feed all the other pegs do.

I did stick my neck on the block though and said to young Micky that i'd double his weight from it yesterday and we had a pound side bet (stupid or what lol).


Well section wise today Anthony was on peg 34 - Mick on peg 38 - Justin peg 40 - Dan peg 2 - Frank peg 4 - Ernie peg 5 & Paul peg 7 

Going on yesterdays peg form the best i could hope for would be 5th or 6th in section although most expect the peg to be last.

Now i've fished 36 on 4 occasions over the years and the results aint been all bad although i've blanked once been section and overall last twice i have actually won a match of it as well so i did approach it with an open mind on the final outcome today.

Today i set up just 2 rigs, 1 for 5mtrs in from and a second rig which covered 3 swims which was both left and right margins at top 2 and a swim 6mtrs down the left to the edge of a sunken Hay bale as all 3 areas were within an inch of being identical depths

Now i'd like to say that from the start i was into fish and emptied it over the next 5 hours but that just never happened.


The truth is i tried all swims over the first 3 hours n 50 minutes with just a couple of missed bites and nothing else.

Finally they arrived on the top 2 line to my right and just before 3pm i netted my first fish which although only about 7lb was a VERY WELCOME SITE.   

When the all out was called at 4.15 i'd netted 4 fish and lost 5 or 6 which felt like foul hookers for a total weight of 42lb 6oz which i guessed would put me rock bottom last in section.

I was wrong though and i actually managed 5th in section which although pretty much blows me out of any contention in the Festival i was actually pleased with the result just a bit gutted they arrived to late and not in a large number.


A SECTION RESULT



TOP 7 OVERALL



B Section tomorrow so we will see what's in store tomorrow.


Thanks to Eddie at ROLFS LAKE. for the results images. 









Saturday 19 April 2014

Rolfs Lake 3 Day Easter Festival

DAY 1 
Saturday April 19th 2014


As the title says today is Day 1 of The 3 Day Rolfs Easter Festival and this is the first year that i have entered the festival and with many of the best Rolfs venue regulars and experts amongst the 24 fishing i'll be more than pleased if i finish in the top half of the field.

Only time will tell though and as long as a few fish come my way along with a good craick i'll be happy no matter where i end up.

For the Festival the lake is split into 3 x 8 peg sections and we will rotate around all 3 sections in turn over the 3 days.

A SECTION PEGS
34 - 36 - 38 - 40 - 2 - 4 - 5 - 7

B SECTION PEGS
8 - 9 - 10 - 13 - 28 - 29 - 31 - 32

C SECTION PEGS
14 - 15 - 17 - 18 - 22 - 23 - 25 - 26

Today saw me fishing Peg 17 in C Section and the other anglers in my section for the next 3 days are Justin Macabe Peg 14 - Ernie Maylon Peg 15 - Mick Lane Peg 18 - Paul Newbury Peg 22 - Dan Deakin Peg 23 - Frank Hardy Peg 25 - Anthony Flint Peg 26


Over recent years i've almost given up preparing for any fishing match but i must be honest and say that on Thursday i actually changed the elastic in 2 top kits and on Friday i tied up 9 rigs (which will probably last me all year).

The 3 Floats on the Left were tied up with .21 Powerline for fishing long in open water and the other 6 were tied to .24 Powerline for the Margins.
FLOATS USED

The 3 long line rigs were tied at 8ft long (allowing 4 inches for a Guru hook length) as that's the length of my top kits and it also means any i shorten i can make another margin rig out of what i cut off as i am a tight git after all lol.
All 6 margin rigs were tied at 4ft.

I also ground up 6kg of Paste to cover the 3 days so really i think i done more prep for this weekend than i did all last year lol.

So onto todays events just to shock everyone i arrived BEFORE the draw today and enjoyed a fresh cooked breakfast at the lake thanks to Pauline -Annette & Ann.

As you already know my home for the day was Peg 17 sandwiched between Ernie on 15 & Mick on 18

PEG 17

I've not fished Peg 17 for a few years so although most rate the peg lowly in the section i was quite happy with my draw as i do like getting different pegs plus its also got a bush either side which suits my favoured style of fishing short.

First line i set up today was a long line for me which was on a top 4 straight out in front.
Second line was a top 2 to the edge of the right bush.
Third line was top 3 to the edge of the left bush using the same rig.
All rigs had 4inch Guru hook lengths with a size 10 hook and all had Orange Hollow Vespe Elastics fitted.


The all in was called at 11.15 and an 8mm pellet was lowered onto my long line and no sooner had the float settled than it was gone and fish on
A couple of seconds later a nice little 7lb carp was lowered into the keepnet GOOD START
Next 2 put ins on pellet resulted in missed bites so 4th put in was on Paste which resulted in 2 more missed bites, then 2 more put ins with pellet resulted in a small Skimmer and a Hybrid so with 20 minutes gone that kit got put away and out came the margin rig.

First put in down right edge on Paste resulted in an instant missed bite, but next 2 put ins resulted in 2 fish both going around 15lb each. 
-------- TOP KIT STRIKES AGAIN -----------

Next 2 put ins were down the left side first resulted in a lost fish but 2nd resulted in what turned out to be a 20lb 9oz Common.
So with about an hour n half gone i had about 55 to 60lb in the nets with just 4 fish (i was enjoying myself already).

Well for the rest of the match i switched between both left and right margins taking odd fish from each along with the odd lost fish (think i lost about 8 in total).

I ended up with 19 Carp of which 11 i guessed were weighers (in 2 nets) and 8 net fish in a 3rd net and 2 silvers in a 4th net.

With all fish going in nets over the 3 days and a 100lb maximum per net i had 6 weighers in one net which went 97lb 9oz (close call).

Once all nets had been weighed in i had a total weight of  244lb 1oz and a BIG GRIN

BIGGEST FISH TODAY
20LB 9OZ COMMON


As luck had it i ended up Winning my Section and an added bonus of best weight on the day as well


FULL SECTION RESULTS
POINTS & WEIGHTS

Pound side bets won from both Dai & Mickey today which is a good start to the year 

A Section for me in the morning and regardless where i draw i'll still be grinning following todays result.





Monday 14 April 2014

Date: Sunday 13th April 2014

First entry of 2014 is also my first trip of the year and the venue for my return is my favorite water Rolfs lake in Oxfordshire

Thanks to Neil Riddy for the invite to today's match

Today fishing was from 11.15am till 4.15pm and typical of me i was late and missed the draw and arrived shortly before the start.

Neil had drawn for me and my home was to be peg 2 at the bottom of the small lake.



Everyone who draws peg 2 fishes long pole down the left towards the corner.
but i'm nothing like others so totally ignored that area.

I set up just 2 rigs to cover 3 lines

Rig 1 was for 6mtrs straight in front into about 41/2 foot of water, line was a little light for me as i used a Winter rig which was .19 Powerline with a 3" guru hook length.

Rig 2 was for both left and right margins and consisted of .22 Powerline and again with a 3" guru hook length.

I was finally ready at about 11.45 and started on the long line and messed about on this line for about half hour with both paste and pellet as hook bait for nothing more than a couple of liners.

So time to hit the MARGINS
First to get my attention was to the left and i proceeded to get constant Roach knocks with the odd proper bite which resulted in 3 or 4 bumped Carp before finally hitting one of the proper bites and first carp was on the board weighing in at 11lb 8oz and my normal first Carp cheer rang out.

For the rest of the match i switched between both left and right margins to end up with 11 carp 10 of which went on the board with the best going 17lb 8oz proper Paste Fish

 10 carp on the board for 129lb made for a happy chappy

22 anglers fished today and i was very pleased to end up 3rd in section and 6th overall on my first outting of the year








  1. Peg 34 Steve Water     268lb 2oz
  2. Peg 16 Russell Hill      246lb 6oz
  3. Peg 24 Pete Archer     217lb 13oz
  4. Chris Lovelock            169lb 10oz
  5. Peg 5 Paul Jay           147lb 15oz
  6. Peg 2 Malc Doyle       138lb 4oz
  7. Peg 4 Neil Riddy         137lb 10oz
  8. Peg 8 Geoff Edwards   129lb 4oz
  9. Peg 9 Steve Wilson     125lb 7oz

John has now got a small Cafe and Tackle / Bait shop on site which is a great addition to the venue










Thanks for reading 

Next trip out is the Rolfs lake Easter 3 day Festival next weekend


Hello And Welcome

Hello and welcome to my ALL NEW Blog called
MALC DOYLE ON THE BANK
As the title suggests this is where after a 2 year break from reporting on my fishing adventures this is where i will resume with full reports on my fishing trips be they Good - Bad or Indifferent